Team:Stuttgart/HP/Gold Integrated
Integrated and Gold
Interview with Dr. Carsten Meyer from the department of wastewater technology
By inventing an sustainable, eco-friendly tube cleanser for every household we also want to know how the public reacts to our project. As the marketing and commercialization of a tube cleanser that one can buy in the supermarket is out of scope due to time limitations, we know that the research we do is not sufficient. Nevertheless we believe that there is great potencial in our genetically modified tube cleanser and we want to know how the public would react to it and what consequences the use of it would have. For this we visitied the Institute of sanitary environmental engineering and water recycling of the University Stuttgart were we had a very interesting interview with Dipl.-Ing. Carsten Meyer from the department of wastewater technology. Furthermore Mr Meyer gave us a tour through the wastewatertreatment plant and explained us all in detail how the cleaning process of the wastewater works. The institute is not only doing research but also actually cleaning the wastewater of the University Stuttgart and parts of the surrounding suburbs.
The iGEM-Team Stuttgart interviewed Carsten Meyer on his opinion and possible range of application regarding a biological drain cleaner for the usage and its effect in wasterwater treatment. Dipl.-Ing Carsten Meyer – abbreviated CM in the following interview – is the Head of the Department of Wastewater Technology of the Insitute for Sanitary Enigneering, Water Quality and Soild Waste Management located at the University of Stuttgart. The German sewage treatment plants can be generally classified into three steps. The first one, is represented by mechanical methods to remove solid, insoluble particles. The following biological step is responsible for the degradation of organic components (including also organic bound nitrogen) by the help of microorganisms. The last step utilizes chemical reactions as oxidation or precipitation to remove chemical components such as phosphor. The sewage sludge resulted by these three steps is then used in digestion tanks for biogas production and, subsequently, is mostly burnt (1).
The Interview
Dear Mr Meyer, what do you relate with the term Synthetic Biology/Genetic engineering?
CM:Well, it is a diverse field that can be used in and is known especially in agriculture and food industry. People often have negative associations to it, as the consequences of the usage of genetically modified products are often not predictable. But it is an important part of our society and environment that has lots of advantages to offer, when we use it wisely. Due to the lack of nutrition one day I think Synthetic Biology will be inevitable.
iGEM-Team:What is generally your opinion on our biological drain cleaner which is based on a holistic approach using E.coli? CM:
I think it’s a good idea. Whereby, the chemical substances, usually something basic like sodium hydroxide, which are often used for drain cleaners, don’t really destroy anything in a sewage treatment plant. Nevertheless, I think it’s a good idea to try different ways than the usual ones and you never know which further concepts could follow. In a sewage treatment plant, hair usually don’t pose a big problem, however, there are problems of so-called tressings which often build up by hair in pumps or in stirrers of the digestion tanks. If these tressings aren’t removed they can cause defects. If latter can be avoided more easily, that would be great.
iGEM-Team:These tressings are really a problem which are mainly caused by the household drains?
CM:The main cause for tressings are definitely households. But I must raise the question as well if one always have to use the chemical – or in this case biological – mace. There also exists the good old plunger. (all laughing)
iGEM-Team:These chemical drain cleaners don’t even contain stuff like sodium hydroxide but also nitrate and aluminum components. Can these substances cause problems, as we already have – e.g. in case of the nitrate – to much nitrate in (German) ground water?
CM:I don’t think that nitrate would cause major problems as most sewage treatment plants, at least the bigger ones, are equipped with a biological step which degrades nitrate. Concerning the aluminum components, I don’t consider that as a bigger problem. Substances as aluminum hydroxide go into the sewage sludge which gets, by the majority, burnt in Germany. However, in some states the sludge is still utilized soil-related as fertilizer. Of course, then the aluminum substances can cause problems as it’s released into the environment. Therefore, it’s good that the government plans to forbid the soil-related sewage sludge utilization.
iGEM Team:What are the biggest issues in the wastewater treatment?
CM:We do have a really big issues with wet wipes. Instead of throwing them in the garbage people throw them in the toilet. They are immensely resistable and clog strainer and rakes of the wasterwater plant, so that it can’t work properly anymore. Other than that there are big uses with organic substances from showergel, household cleaner and pharmaceuticals. These organical compounds can’t be cleaned by a wasterwater plant and they reach our environment and waters. We don’t know how these organical and chemical compounds interact with each other and what influences they will have on our environment and eco system.
iGEM-Team:In the news, they recently talked a lot about blockages caused by fat. Are these blockages really such a big problem?
CM:Alluding to the recent incidence that happened in London? It can happen, of course. So, you asked about fat blockages in pipes, weren’t you?
iGEM-Team:Yes, about big lumps of fat.
CM:These are possible. However, the main cause aren’t the households but rather commercial and industrial groups. These problems pose if these groups don’t separate fat from the sewage water before it’s led into the canal system. Furthermore, if the canal system is badly maintained, if the canals system is old, if water is missing in the canals, or if the transport velocity isn’t high enough, then it’s quite possible that such fat deposits happen.
iGEM-Team:Would such fat blockages be an interesting area of attack for our biological drain cleaner?
CM:Yes, I can imagine that.
iGEM-Team:Great. Our drain cleaner degrades fats, soap residues and hair. Do you think that, by this breakdown synthesized, important amino acids and fatty acids can be recycled?
CM:Only theoretically, that could be possible. But I can’t judge if that would be economically reasonable. Furthermore, I can see also a conflict of interests. If we say, we want to recycle e.g. fats then they are lacking somewhere else. In the course of the process, fats usually go into the sewage sludge and thereby into the digestion tank. These fats are then important for the biogas production. Consequently, there arises the question if it’s favored to recycle single substances with a relative great effort or is it better to utilize these substances in the degradation tank for the biogas production?
iGEM-Team:Our E.coli doesn’t only degrade hair and fat, furthermore it produces a rose or fir fragrance by using the degraded substances. Would that be something for your sewage treatment plant?
CM:Wow, that are totally new perspectives. (all laugh) Indeed, there are treatment plants which must cover their biological step to avoid odor if a sewage plant is close to a residential area or if an unfavorable wind direction occurs. However, a good treatment plant usually doesn’t smell too much, anyway, it can happen from time to time. And if you can then scent a rose fragrance instead, that would be great!
iGEM-Team:Supposing that our biological drain cleaner work as we planned. Would you personally use it?
CM:I would test it in any case!
REFERENCES
- http://www.bmub.bund.de/themen/wasser-abfall-boden/binnengewaesser/abwasser/klaeranlage-kurzinfo/
Interview with Dr. Arno Cordes
Dr. Arno Cordes (abbreviated AC in the following interview) is the director of ASA Spezialenzyme GmbH and one of the coauthors of the DBU (German Federal Environmental Foundation) promoted final report about the development of an enzymatic tube cleaner based on keratinases. At the beginning of our project this detailed article was one of our most important fundamentals to develop our own ideas and experiments. In the course of that we interviewed Dr. Arno Cordes about his article and of course his opinion about our project.
iGEM-Team:What do you think synthetic biology provides for the future?
AC:Tailor-made enzymes for industrial use like biogas, bioethanol, conversion of lignocellulytiv remnants (e.g. straw or green waste).
iGEM-Team:We would like to know your opinion about our biological tube cleaner based on a holistic microbial system secreting keratinases, esterases and lipases. Our idea aims to avoid harmful chemical tube cleaners by providing an eco-friendly alternative. What do you think about this idea in general?
I think, it is basically a good and ecologic meaningful idea. Finding a suitable keratinase degrading hair within little hours seems to be the main problem. Compared to chemical cleaning agents it is also much more expensive.
iGEM-Team:Do you think chemical tube cleaners are a serious problem to the environment?
AC:Tensides, often a component of chemical tube cleaners, are very resisting to biodegradation and for that reason harmful to the environment. The containing chlorine compound and bleach can also transform organic molecules to toxic substances.
iGEM-Team:Do you think chemical tube cleaners are bad for pipe systems?
AC:In high concentrations, it is possible to develop heat and agglutination. In the first case pipes made of plastics are damaged; in the second case the clogging of pipes is boosted. Our customers and partners confirm these effects. iGEM-Team:
Chemical tube cleaners contain substances like nitrate, sodium carbonate and aluminium particles. Do you think the supply of nitrate is an additional problem to the already polluted ground water? What happens to the aluminiumhydroxide composed ofthe aluminium particles?
AC:Due to the used amounts of nitrate the impact to the environment is insignificant. The aluminiumhydroxide is placed into water risk class 1: less risk to environment.
iGEM-Team:What do you think about the commercial biological tube cleaners and what can you tell us about their efficiency?
AC:The are too slow and sometimes not even working at all.
iGEM-Team:Cloggings made of fat seem to be an increasing problem, too. Do you think lipases are capable to solve that problem?
AC:It is possible to solve cloggings consisting of fat with lipases. But we think, the main problem is still the hair.
iGEM-Team:What do you think about how reasonable and realistic it is to use a biotechnological tube cleaner? Which qualifications do you think it needs to fulfill to be placed on the market?
AC:Reference to question and answer 2: there has to be a effective keratinase.
iGEM-Team:E.coli spreading a scent while degrading keratin – do you think it is a positive aspect for the user?
AC:I don’t know anything about that.
iGEM-Team:What kind of problems do we have face using genetically modified E.coli in a pipe system?
AC:Consumer’s acceptance; Permission to release E.coli because of e.g. antibiotic resistance; low production of enzymes; most strains producing enzymes are keeping those into the cell, so there is no contact to fats or hair at all.
iGEM-Team:Do you already know anything about the use of GMO’s in tube cleaners?
AC:NO, there is no product like that.
iGEM-Team:Do you think we can reduce the costs by using a holistic microbial system to avoid expensive filtration of the enzymes?
AC:If the microbial system secretes the enzymes into the media, yes.
iGEM-Team:If we would implement mechanisms to ensure that E.coli kills itself on its own, so only the enzymes would remain in the tube – would you use the microbial tube cleaner at home?
AC:If there is no antibiotic resistance on the plasmid of the E.coli leading to transformation of (cross-)resistances to other bacteria and ineffectiveness of drugs, yes.
Interview with Dr. Hans-Christian Schaefer
To have another expert opinion on our project we asked Dr. Hans-Christian Schaefer (abbreviated HS in the following interview) for an interview. Dr. Schaefer is working for the DBU (German Federal Environmental Foundation) and shared his expert knowledge by anwering some questions about our topic.
iGEM-Team:What do you think synthetic biology provides for the future?
HS:Genetic engineering and synthetic biology will be of growing importance in medicine, agriculture and chemical industry. Some of the challenges in a future world of eight billion people or more can be addressed with these technologies. Agriculture and the chemical industry may become more sustainable if these technologies are used wisely. But chances have to be weighed against risks.
iGEM-Team:We would like to know your opinion about our biological tube cleaner based on a holistic microbial system secreting keratinases, esterases and lipases. Our idea aims to avoid harmful chemical tube cleaners by providing an eco-friendly alternative. What do you think about this idea in general?
In general, it is a very good idea to substitute harmful chemicals in household cleaners and use enzymes instead. Certainly, the best way to clean the drain is to do it mechanically, without any cleaner.
iGEM-Team:Do you think the use of chemical drain cleaners is a problem to the environment?
HS:Chemical drain cleaners pose a potential risk for the environment and the user (e. g. for children).
iGEM-Team:Chemical tube cleaners contain substances like nitrate, sodium carbonate and aluminium particles. Do you think the supply of nitrate is an additional problem to the already polluted ground water? What happens to the aluminiumhydroxide composed ofthe aluminium particles?
HS:The amount of nitrate from drain cleaners is probably neglectable in comparison to other sources. Aluminum compounds are not really a problem. Aluminum is used for waste water treatment a lot. But in general our drinking water should contain as little pollutants as possible.
iGEM-Team:What do you think about the commercial biological tube cleaners and what can you tell us about their efficiency?
HS:Obviously they are not very effective.
iGEM-Team:Cloggings made of fat seem to be an increasing problem, too. Do you think lipases are capable to solve that problem?
HS:The idea to use lipases to treat fat in drains is not new, but not used a lot (to expensive?). To solve this problem, plenty of lipases would be necessary, which would also pose a kind of organic pollution and a problem for waste water treatment plants.
iGEM-Team:What do you think about how reasonable and realistic it is to use a biotechnological drain cleaner in private households and industry? Which qualifications do you think it needs to fulfill to be placed on the market?
HS:The biggest challenge is that these cleaners are expected to work fast. Enzymatic cleaners are often slower than chemical ones. The second challenge is whether they can reach their substrate well enough. I think, it makes sense to use enzymes. In households, safety is the best argument. In industry, where the materials which plug the drains may be more defined, enzymes may be a good solution.
iGEM-Team:E.coli spreading a scent while degrading keratin – do you think it is a positive aspect for the user?
HS:Of course.
iGEM-Team:What kind of problems do we have face using genetically modified E.coli in a pipe system?
HS:How does the GMO behave in contact with other bacteria in its ecosystem?
iGEM-Team:Do you already know anything about the use of GMO’s in tube cleaners?
HS:Unknown. In Germany not allowed to use GMO in households.
iGEM-Team:If we would implement mechanisms to ensure that E.coli kills itself on its own, so only the enzymes would remain in the tube – would you use the microbial tube cleaner at home?
HS:If I had to use a drain cleaner I am not sure if I would use one with GMOs, unless there was a clear advantage in comparison to using the enzymes alone. I do not believe in “safety functions” in GMOs. You should use them only, if you are sure they are safe. If you think they are not safe, you should not use them.
